H22A8 rebuild plan

[Froidas]

I have a problem with my engine and would like to ask for some advice.
Since here there are many really experienced people, I hope somebody will help to select the most suitable engine build plan.

My 4th gen run, actually ran, H22A8:
- stock internals, fully rebuilt about 10 years ago, but not so many miles, maybe 20 k
- Skunk 2 intake manifold, 70 mm throttle body (I know it's too big, but price was good and I was hoping I will do some good future build )
- PLM tri-Y exhaust header, 3" exhaust (the same, wanted much more HP in future )
- Fidanza fly wheel, all 3 lightweight pulleys

Several years ago head was removed to change one valve. And I reused the same head bolts. Very stupid, I know.
So blew head gasket. At least engine acted like that. I thought I'll fix it in couple days. Removed head and found 2 damaged cylinders. One pretty badly, feels good with a finger, not even a nail. Depth is not visible in photos.

Block is not disassembled, so I'm not sure what's the reason for damaged cylinders. I hope rod bearings are ok.
But anyway, honing won't help. As I remember, FRM layer is 0,5 mm thick, right?

So I need to rebuild the engine and I'm trying to decide what exactly to do.
My goals:
#1 - Reliability. I don't want to touch the engine for next 10 years at least I drive maybe 500-3000 miles a year.
#2 - Power. I made 164 kw (220 hp) with current engine. I want a bit more, I want to exceed that psychological 220 mark 235-240 hp would be very nice.

So I have several options:
1. Bring the block to the shop to check and maybe hone it. And get new 0,25 oversized pistons.
2. Get another block with internals, fully rebuild and use it - I'm a bit worried how long 100-150 k miles block would last.
3. Get block and put 11.5 mahle pistons - nice pistons, but block is still old.
4. Sleeve my current block and put 11.5-12.0 forget pistons - a bit insanely expensive. I maybe could do it, if it's several times more long lasting.

I currently have Skunk 2 std size flat valves, springs and retainers laying around in garage.

I am thinking to get:
- adjustable cam gears
- Skunk 2 Pro 1/2 cams. After numerous threads and builds I read I lean to Pro 2.
- balance shaft removal kit
- I'm thinking to change from Fidanza to CC flywheel, but not sure yet.
- Eagle rods

Also, I am planning to do almost everything myself. I never rebuilt the block, I want to do it
So I would really appreciate, if you could advice which direction is better and help to create a part list.

[wurlycorner]

Why are you not keen on option 1 or 3?

Block age is immaterial provided bores in good condition?

[Froidas]

Actually I'm mostly leaning to #3. It's the most reasonable if I want to make more power and probably keep stock reliability.
But I wonder about longevity, does it make sense to sleeve the block. I personally think that price is too high compared to what you get. I don't do turbo or super high compression build.

Also I don't have a good shop nearby to consult about the part list. Now it's just most popular upgrades. I don't know how to do calculations to make a properly balanced engine.
This is another reason of this thread.

[wurlycorner]

No personal experience of it, but I think Mahle pistons in a re-bored/honed block will be absolutely fine longevity-wise, if done right and not a Turbo build.
That's what I'm going to do for my engine build, anyway.

[NafemanNathan]

So I have several options:
1. Bring the block to the shop to check and maybe hone it. And get new 0,25 oversized pistons.

Not many shops will want to touch FRM liners. Maybe a Porsche specialist, but then Porsche prices.

2. Get another block with internals, fully rebuild and use it - I'm a bit worried how long 100-150 k miles block would last.

As Iain says, the mileage doesn't matter so much, it's the history and owner(s) you want to worry about. So in most cases this leaves you in the dark taking a bit of a gamble with what you're purchasing, so make sure you know what you're buying and who from.

3. Get block and put 11.5 mahle pistons - nice pistons, but block is still old.

Same as above regarding the block.

4. Sleeve my current block and put 11.5-12.0 forget pistons - a bit insanely expensive. I maybe could do it, if it's several times more long lasting.

Certainly not what you want to be doing if you want a sub £5k+ engine rebuild. And won't be any more reliable than a stock rebuild.

I currently have Skunk 2 std size flat valves, springs and retainers laying around in garage.

I am thinking to get:
- adjustable cam gears
- Skunk 2 Pro 1/2 cams. After numerous threads and builds I read I lean to Pro 2.

Not much gains to be had over Type-S/ATR cams with the Pro 1s. Pro 2's give good figures, but the pistons need work for clearance. You can obviously do this yourself, but it's possibly something you'd want to consider getting a shop to do.

- balance shaft removal kit
- I'm thinking to change from Fidanza to CC flywheel, but not sure yet.

No need to replace the Fidanza unless it's excessively worn (In which case you can replace just the face plate).

- Eagle rods

Not much to gain by replacing the stock ones unless going for big big power.

Also, I am planning to do almost everything myself. I never rebuilt the block, I want to do it

Good for you!

My 5th gen made 242bhp with essentially a stock H22a7. The only upgrades were S2000 injectors and the breathing mods (Full Mugen exhaust system, Type-S Air Intake and K&N filter). Tuned on AEM EMS (Probably would have done better on Hondata).

[Froidas]

Thanks for such detailed response, I was actually waiting for you to notice this thread

As Iain says, the mileage doesn't matter so much, it's the history and owner(s) you want to worry about. So in most cases this leaves you in the dark taking a bit of a gamble with what you're purchasing, so make sure you know what you're buying and who from.

It would be the one newkid is selling

My 5th gen made 242bhp with essentially a stock H22a7. The only upgrades were S2000 injectors and the breathing mods (Full Mugen exhaust system, Type-S Air Intake and K&N filter). Tuned on AEM EMS (Probably would have done better on Hondata).

This I don't get. Not just your build, any in this forum makes much more power than I do on the dyno close to me.
A guy with 3rd gen and sleeved h22, forged pistons (so probably at lest 12.0), don't remember what cams, all done by one shop, made 245
Here, you improve intake and exhaust (and a bit more) - boom, 240 I did only 220.
I know that all dyno's differ, but that much... I'll need to check my Prelude on all dynos I'll find in 300 mile radius after the build

[wurlycorner]

Not many shops will want to touch FRM liners. Maybe a Porsche specialist, but then Porsche prices.

This is true.
Although I have a local place up the road that have been around for absolutely donkeys years and say they are happy to do it so places can be found...


Froidas, why are you not thinking of just rebuilding using your existing engine?


Anyway, I have an appointment with a recalcitrant BB4...

[Froidas]

According to my not very precise measurement (with fingers ), marks are too deep in the cylinder walls. Like it was hit by screwdriver.
Of course I'm not sure.

[NafemanNathan]

Bare in mind Newkid has only bought that car to break, so he doesn't have history with it himself. I have no idea what history it came with.

Is yours WHP or BHP?

[Froidas]

BHP. WHP was some really low number, 180 or so, I didn't even want to look at it