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Post by lewd lude lover » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:13 am

What does what :P

If I am correct I need to expound on the sound that every small french car seems to make when one closes a door.

It sounds, and feels, like I am closing a door made of tinfoil. The thinnest possible metal. and the whole chassis ''rings'' with the collision of cheap engineered panels and the cost saving associated with little or no attention to chassis vibration and sound deadening.

You have to understand, I spend all my travel time in either new quality cars (audi,spec'd volvo's etc) and all of the rest of my driving time in older quality vehicles. Soon as I even get close to a fench car I can see, and mores to this point, hear the low quality of design and construction.

This is like trying to objectively discuss Rover with someone who used to work for them. You just cant get past the cognative dissonance that they weren't all that bad really. They are that bad, really.

:P
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Post by wurlycorner » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:59 pm

lewd lude lover wrote:What does what :P
Well, I'm (reasonably!) assuming you've not been in every single French car ever made, so therefore I'm asking to what French car/s are you definitively referring to with your statement.

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Post by lewd lude lover » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:28 pm

Shitroen xara and the other one of the time. picasso etc, Saxo, C1, C3, the little van as well.

pug 1007, 406 coupe, 307, 208

renault scenic, megan, clio

Driven, worked on or owned all of them and hate them all. Been a passenger in many more of different types. Thats more than enough of a cross section, considering my experience of other car producers combined, to make a well placed generalised judgement call of the french ability at enginering well constructed quality cars that last the life of the chassis.

On the other hand I have driven owned and worked on a number of german and japanese designed and constructed cars and the difference is night and day. I appreciate you have a barn full of french metal and you need to fight the corner but my OBJECTVE opinion is that on the scale of car producing nations france comes somewhere just under Brazil in the quality stakes nowadays. Notice I say nowadays there though? Maybe your french anne franks hiding in the loft are built to last and are from an age when france was known for precise engineering and strict quality control... When was that again?? :lol: :P

Its the way they design light housings and all the types of things that you can either make easy to get to or a frikking nightmare. Things are designed and produced to be willfully breakable, inaccessable or of poor fit and finish, across the board in my experience.. They are designed to cost you money on parts, consumables and garage labor in my experience, not longevity.

I know you have a soft spot for them but I wont lie about my own personal experience with french cars to massage that spot for you :arrow: :P
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Post by lewd lude lover » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:30 pm

It wouldn't suprise me to find a french car producer had something to do with the conception of Mitsubishi to be fair. :lol:

You might get the jap reliability (though thats debatable after 100k) but you sure as hell get the needless complication of design.
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Post by mercutio » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:50 pm

i have driven some very exotic french vehicles and they were really well put together the engines and running gear were literally bulletproof :lol: as well as the bodywork
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Post by lewd lude lover » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:36 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Your specific experience, while invaluable, is a little specific in this case I believe mate.

:think:
Still, makes you think. France is famous for keeping a hardcore battalion of real fighters that get sent in to do the wetwork and sort out the tough problems. Tough men for tough jobs with the training and ability to overcome forces many times their number. A well oiled machine of war with high standards expected of its men...

None of them french of course.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by mercutio » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:32 pm

some of them are french, but on paper they are swiss or canadian or belgian. :lol: Oh and dont think the french forces are the pussies they used to be the legion train the french para's now.
They are not legionaires nor can the majority of them keep up with the legionaires but they are hard men who do a more than good job i would fight with them before i would fight with some of the american units.
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Post by lewd lude lover » Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:36 pm

I'm only having a laugh mate, I'm sure they turn out more than acceptable fighters. Cars on the other hand..... :lol:
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Post by wurlycorner » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:12 pm

Well, you're entitled to your OBJECTIVE opinion of course, but I'm afraid you are well off on the wrong tangent with your link into my collection there suggesting mine isn't objective - I started off by pointing out I'd never owned a pug so had no allegiance to them and have previously documented how pissed off I am at the way PSA have diluted all 'citroeness' out of citroen, but never mind eh, I guess I must not be blessed with the entitlement of looking at things objectively..?

I don't offer any opinion on modern Renaults, because I've never owned or really even travelled in any.

I agree there are certainly some interior parts on very modern Citroens/Pugs (because they're now basically the same as I said just a couple of posts ago :( ) that are very poor. Not in a sense they're in anyway flimsy or falling off, but there are bits like the door pulls and dash trims where the original single colour has been re-coloured into various different textures and colours and unfortunately those re-colours are very thin top overs and wear out within literally a couple of years. That's utterly bum droppings. But then again, I've observed exactly the same thing in modern Vectra's and Passats, so... meh?

One of my mates runs Mondeo's for his work vehicles and changes them after 3 years. I find the interiors on them to be pretty solid, but extremely oppressive and I've yet to be in one where the A pillar trim fits properly and stays attached.

My point has been that all modern cars are the same - they're cheap disposable things. Some are better than others in some regards - on that I think Phil said, you pays your money and takes your choice - but equally, many people still look at certain brands with rose-tinted glasses because of past glories or because they're the 'accepted brand' of the time, so it's easy to go along with the crowd...

I am totally lost on your suggestion that they're designed to cost you money on parts and even if they were, are you suggesting parts for Pugs and Cits are expensive? In comparison to your Honda and Bimmer? :huh:

I expected the C5 to be a poor imitation of the sort of Citroen I like, but having gone and bought one (because I purely needed a big car for putting stuff in that's brilliant for towing with) I've found OBJECTIVELY that I had actually massively underestimated it and it is a drokking good car! It's done 150k, not been looked after and yet there's absolutely nothing about it that suggests it's done more than a few k. That's impressive.

As singling them out for things like bulb changes being harder to work on? Sorry, that's just bollocks, pure and simple. It's another modern car thing that jobs like that are often a ridiculous PITA to do (taking a bumper off to change a headlight bulb? Really? :roll: what :tosser: thought that was sensible) but it's all centred around trying to make you go back to a dealer. That's why everything (on all modern cars) is covered in plastic jobby. (Actually though, to my surprise I have to say having just started to tackle a couple of those things on the C5, I've actually not found any car that's easier to do that on - it's a damn site easier changing the dash bulbs than on the lude) :lol:

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Post by Ted » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:43 pm

I think you need to leave the alcohol alone during the day james, you used to seem to want to rub people up the wrong way a lot a while back and blamed it on the guiness. Reading your contributions to a lot of threads ive read lately you seem to be going down the exact same road and purposely taunting people . i find myself shaking my head in disbelief of your extreme knowledge of nearly everything lately.
easy tiger.

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