Scottish independence. Discuss.

[lewd lude lover]

So we are a year away from the results being old news.

As an English person I have some views on the subject but mainly it is a feeling of gentle bemusement that the question is being raised at all. It seems like an odd time to want to go it alone. The world is a cold dark place full of economic mantraps and nothing we are shown in the news so far says that Scotland has the pockets for it. Thats not to say that the news is not bias, I'm sure it is.

I would ask for our Scottish members to give their views on this important change to our nation as a whole please?
What are the fall back plans if it goes tits up after 7 years? What plans are there to fill the void left in the economy when Westminsters cash goes home? Will you have a standing army? What will happen between the protestant and catholic tensions if each side suddenly feels free of restraint?
And do you all want this? Is the vote something that needs to be done, you all want to stay in the union but you need to be able to publicly say you want to rather than just be included automatically?

Also our English members to give their thoughts and opinions on the problems/advantages we all might face if Scotland goes it alone? What will it mean to business? will we be paying import export duty on products? Is anyone in business that might be affected? good or bad of course.

I open this as a thread to discuss this huge change to our way of life in the hopes we can discuss it in a mature and level way. Would the mods please keep an eye on it for any developing animosity or attitude please? I know its a touchy subject so lets keep our gobs shut till we have thought about our words. This is not about english bashing or scot bashing. Its about a big upheaval in our nation that i am not too sure, one way or the other, will benefit anyone in the long run.

What do you think?

[indigolemon]

I think it's one of the worst thought out plans ever to be given serious consideration by the Scottish Government - there are gaps in the plans so large you could drive a planet through them. The whole thing reminds me of the South Park episode with the underpant gnomes:

1 - Gain Independance
2 - ???
3 - Profit!

What makes it worse, is they are lowering the voting age for this, so all the NED's with the "we hate England" mentality will be able to vote yes. In conclusion, I fear for our future

[bennyboy]

In my rather naive (?) view, it just feels a bit like an angry man vote to me, arranged by someone with a chip on his shoulder, that is desperate to be known as Scottish and not British.
Don't get me wrong, I am very proud of being English, but that doesn't mean I don't like being British too - I like to think that when it counts, we're better together - as Elvis Costello once said: "With the boys from the Mersey and the Thames and the Tyne" (Yes I know, but the point is the same )
That said, if that's what the Scots want, then so be it. Personally I just feel that it's almost digging up a past, that should be left well alone. I like to think we have moved on from there.
FWIW, the few Scots I know all want to remain part of the UK.

[lewd lude lover]

@indigo: this is what i wondered. The movement originates with money and power rather than a better tomorrow for scottish people. The gaps cant be filled with oil as i understand it?

@benny: I think/hope a lot of it could be about laying the past to rest? Scotland has the opportunity to say 'YES we want to be part of the union and we also want to put Long shanks and all that bad blood history behind us Lets go and take Europes balls and squeeze them!' But, as Indigo says, maybe the vote will be skewed by the yout' vote. As far as i hear the educated youth are all for retaining the union but they are always outnumber by the 'broad base' of population that go with the old ways before looking to the new.

[bennyboy]

@benny: I think/hope a lot of it could be about laying the past to rest? Scotland has the opportunity to say 'YES we want to be part of the union and we also want to put Long shanks and all that bad blood history behind us Lets go and take Europes balls and squeeze them!'

THIS is what I hope. I want Scotland to remain part of the whole, I would actually be sad if 'lost' them, but maybe that's just the romantic/camaraderie loving part of me

[lewd lude lover]

@indigo: do you think Scotland might suffer a grand exodus of population to the south if it was a yes vote? The working middle class etc? would you consider making your way over the border if you really feel its a bad decision or would you stick it out and see what happened, make the most of it?


I think its facinating that this could happen in our time. the whole thing is so open to fluffy policicos messing it up. we need some strong leaders to achieve a move like this. Has Scotland got any? We dont imho...

@benny: same. We are a union of nations standing in a puddle.. OK so england were the bullyboy in times past but we are a strong unit with cultural and genetic diversity (some of it pretty shallow to be fair) and we should tie closer if anything. the Euros think us degenerate or something and the USA is like having a psyco mate with a loaded gun to your head. We need each other nowadays

[indigolemon]

@indigo: do you think Scotland might suffer a grand exodus of population to the south if it was a yes vote? The working middle class etc? would you consider making your way over the border if you really feel its a bad decision or would you stick it out and see what happened, make the most of it?

If I'm honest, I'm not that adventurous - I really like where I am, my family is here (and has been for generations) so I wouldn't be moving regardless of the outcome. I just really hope sanity prevails, and people aren't swayed by vague arguments and large scary looking sums that never really quite add up.

[bennyboy]

..and the USA is like having a psyco mate with a loaded gun to your head?

The thing is they are so young, I've always said they are like a big kid with all the toys!

I digress - Totally agree, I feel we are at our best when we pull together, look at the Olympics, the Jubilee, etc. Yes there will always be the naysayers, that can't be helped, but there was undeniably a much greater sense of togetherness and pride overall.
A lot can be achieved when people pull together in general, to use the USA as an example again, pretty much the entire country was working towards putting a man on the moon at one point, whether they knew it or not, and they reckon the benefits economically and scientifically were still being felt across the nation even 20 years later.

I feel that if you fragment a nation, without GOOD reason, you're just introducing more chance of fracture/paper waving and less positive action.

[mercutio]

I don't think England being the bully boys in the past can be taken too seriously when if you go back further England was the whipping boy for the scots/picts whatever you want to call them the romans recognised it and built a bloody wall.
So for the bully thing to be levelled at England is a moot argument but will be used to whip up the uneducated.
I think the country divided was little more than a couple of provincial states together we ruled the world the bad in the past was equal if you go back far enough you cant say well I only count from this date.
If they go independent then good luck to them but I believe it isn't as easy as that, things like your prescriptions and university fees will no longer be free your taxes will rise your oil wont last forever. England now has gas reserves and oil that they are looking to recover from fracking Scotland doesn't have these not that I know of.
I am of the opinion it wont make it better it will diminish the whole.

[lewd lude lover]

@benny: but did they go to the moon???? The jubilee is a perfect case in point.... would the deposed Scottish royal family regain a throne? Is there a deposed Scottish royal family? You see the jubilee was an english affair due to our german Queen


@merc: I totally agree with you but I fear many over the border would love to just stick two fingers up at us and be damned with the consequenses

@indigo: fair play mate not enough would really change to warrent it maybe.