Lude Generation

Right...

I'm not really sure where to start - there may be one issue or a few presenting together. Sorry this is so long I want to try to make it as informative as possible so anyone in the know can help, so I hope you're up for a good read! I've given a little headline to each issue paragraph to kind of... shorten them

Basically, over the last few weeks the brakes on the spare Accord have been getting a little freaky. 3 issues below, listed in the order they presented themselves in.

The car has discs all round and is fitted with ALB (although the light appears to have been removed in the dash as it doesn't illuminate on start up or to show an issue - even when we removed all ALB fuses?)


1 - REAR CALLIPER STICKING / HOT BRAKE ISSUE.

* (KNOWN ISSUE, just mentioned incase it could be relevant to either of the other issues through overheating?)

This has been ongoing since we got the car. It basically just sticks on, it used to only be when the handbrake had been used so we disconnected it to that wheel (it's an auto so not entirely necessary anyway). This used to just mean we'd go through pads real quick on that corner, but NOW it's sticking and getting real hot - having to stop and let the brake cool down after driving through towns. It's been so hot before after a 10 minute journey that I've burnt my fingers touching the wheel. Can't seem to source a replacement easily, anything out there that's interchangeable, anyone that stocks NOS?


2 - SOFT PEDAL ISSUE - INTERMITTENT.

This is the more recent issue, seemingly just the last few weeks. The pedal keeps going soft after a while of driving, as in ALL the way to the floor (pretty scary when you don't have much engine braking in an auto!) but after a few pumps comes back, but then it'll do it again after another few minutes driving. The strange thing about this is that it is completely random and intermittent rather than a regular thing. It can be fine for an hour journey, then later that day just decide to go all the way to the floor again?! Which seems to indicate it's maybe not a case of just bleeding the brakes, as that would be a regular problem rather than intermittent and whenever it chooses there doesn't seem to be anything specific that sets it off.


3 - ALB WHILE NOT BRAKING ISSUE.

Well today, I was driving to the other halfs workshop, so we could bleed the brakes funnily enough. And the pedal-to-the-floor was worse than ever but I was dealing with it. Then, as I pulled out round some parked cars there was an almighty whirring, grinding, air-y noise for about 20ft! (Great description right, so technical). Anyway, I had music on so couldn't define what it was. I pulled over, checked everything. There was nothing leaking, brake fluid levels were fine etc. Got back in the car and the pedal wouldn't even pump back up, it was waaay down but there was still braking ability, just diminished. So I crawled the rest of the 30miles at between 20 and 40mph. During which time this weird noise came back, again for about 20ft, I'd kept the music off this time so I could be more aware. I've never had a car with ABS before (must have never worked on this either!) but I'm pretty sure that's what the noise was, a vibrating almost. But I wasn't braking.


Have removed all ALB related fuses and bled the brakes - will see how it is when I drive it tomorrow. But if anyone could shed any light on this that would be great! Any 'common' issues we should rule out before going through a huuuuge possibly irrelevant list of replacements or repairs? Any important information about the early ALB systems? (Are they the same as 3G Lude?)

Other half is a mechanic, but he can't pinpoint the issue either, nor can anyone he works with because it's so irregular. He didn't believe me about the pedal going soft for weeks because it was intermittent and never happened when he drove it (evening and weekends), until this weekend when it happened to him too

The first problem of seized caliper is simply the common Honda problem of "a seized caliper". It needs stripping and rebuilding. However, I might actually have a full set The fronts are interchangeable with 3rd gen Preludes, but the rears are not. The hand brake cable comes in from the wrong direction and won't reach. Although I had done the opposite and went to fit Aerodeck to Lude, but either way I have a full set should you need them, although I'd advise rebuilding them anyway (or fitting them temporarily to get you unstuck and then rebuilding your originals).

The second one I used to experience slightly in that at traffic light my foot would slowly sink to the floor on the brake pedal. I'd take my foot off and it would charge back up. With the old ALB systems there's a device you plug in that bleeds the system properly. Although you can get them working, you can't completely bleed the system 100% the usual way. I can't remember the details of why though. Might have to be a call to your local Honda garage.

The third one I experienced as well (Probably about two or three times whilst I owned my Aerodeck). I believe it was simply down to an ECU error as it was never at high speeds, and I think they were actually all as I was pulling up to my drive. Not sure whether that's anything to do with the angle the wheels were at, so could be a sensor or could as I said be the ECU. Which again... I might have

becca wrote: 1 - REAR CALLIPER STICKING / HOT BRAKE ISSUE.

This has been ongoing since we got the car. It basically just sticks on, it used to only be when the handbrake had been used so we disconnected it to that wheel (it's an auto so not entirely necessary anyway).

But won't pass an MOT.

This used to just mean we'd go through pads real quick on that corner, but NOW it's sticking and getting real hot - having to stop and let the brake cool down after driving through towns.

Caliper is seized. Either just the sliders or possibly the piston. Have you tried taking out and cleaning up all the carriers and pads to see if that sorts it and check that the carrier slider pins are free?

Can't seem to source a replacement easily, anything out there that's interchangeable, anyone that stocks NOS?

http://brakeparts.co.uk/#page=parts&pag ... AC+%26+AD)

Is that the right model?

Haha first issue is more there incase it could be causing any of the other issues by heating anything? But yeah. Going to get it replaced really, there are some remanufactured ones online. But if you have two rears for now?

The pedal issue though, it happens at speed, unlike normal soft pedal where it slowly goes down when in traffic etc. I could be doing 60, about to slow to 30 and I go for the pedal and it doesn't 'turn' soft gradually, it's just not there? But once I get to pretty much the floor it does apply the brakes, then after a few pumps it comes back. Then either stays back or disappears again within a few minutes. That's why it seems so strange! And it only happens when it feels like it, not all the time either. I could drive a whole journey with them feeling fine, then a few hours later BAM

ALB kicking in too was at 30mph first time and 40mph second time and seemed to happen after light braking. But completely after, as in I'd been off the pedal for about 30 seconds - 2 minutes and was actually accelerating. First time was with the wheels turned slightly and then straight (going round parked cars). Second time wheels were straight.

Nothing just seems to point to anything specific

You seem to have everything I could ever need... Just send me a big box of spares and an invoice

wurlycorner wrote:

becca wrote: 1 - REAR CALLIPER STICKING / HOT BRAKE ISSUE.

This has been ongoing since we got the car. It basically just sticks on, it used to only be when the handbrake had been used so we disconnected it to that wheel (it's an auto so not entirely necessary anyway).

But won't pass an MOT.

This used to just mean we'd go through pads real quick on that corner, but NOW it's sticking and getting real hot - having to stop and let the brake cool down after driving through towns.

Caliper is seized. Either just the sliders or possibly the piston. Have you tried taking out and cleaning up all the carriers and pads to see if that sorts it and check that the carrier slider pins are free?

Can't seem to source a replacement easily, anything out there that's interchangeable, anyone that stocks NOS?

http://brakeparts.co.uk/#page=parts&pag ... AC+%26+AD)

Is that the right model?

Sent me to a dead link but I searched and yep they have them, assuming those too are remanufactured not NOS etc? Rather pricey still but plan to put the discs on my mint one so worth it for that really. Thanks for the link! All I'd found was ebay from the EU, nothing on any of the main stockists to the other halfs work either. Not sure why that site never came up on any of my google searches, guest I'm not as internet savvy as I thought

We know what's wrong with it, have cleaned it etc, yeah just seems to be a problematic one, I do think the car wasn't too well looked after previously though and had sat a LOOOONG time judging by the paint when we got it... Didn't even need to be rubbed down for paint it was that bad. Moss everywhere too

*Going to edit main post to add that the calliper is a known issue and just mentioned incase it's relevant to other issues

I assume the ALB system is the same as in the 3rd gen manual? (Page 13-39 onwards)

(in case that will help with diagnosis)

I've got about 6 or so of those collapsible plastic crates in the loft of just Aerodeck parts

If the bulb has been removed it sounds like a previous owner was aware there was a fault and did the wrong thing about it

I'd say the soft pedal issue could be related to the sticking caliper.

Caliper gets hot - boils fluid - creates air bubbles - brakes fade and get "spongy"

wurlycorner wrote:I assume the ALB system is the same as in the 3rd gen manual? (Page 13-39 onwards)

I was hoping so, and that one of you guys might know because I don't have a clue

The ALB on the Accords isn't very common, and the biggest source of info for them is 3geez - but that's US based and none of them had the option of it, spent a long time trawling their forum to find nothing other than a Dutch guy saying that bleeding the system would cost more than we paid for the car using a specific tool only Honda has

NafemanNathan wrote:If the bulb has been removed it sounds like a previous owner was aware there was a fault and did the wrong thing about it

This was my thought, but other than it not working at all it's never been an issue I'd always just assumed it had been disconnected until today, which never bothered me as I've never had ABS before anyway

Well as said I might have the ECU for you to swap, and what Gayno says is also a strong possibility regarding your brake fade.