Size tb do i go

A1ex · Post by **A1ex** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:50 pm

TBH I don't agree with that.

If you take my build vs Lude-dudes vs bennyboys you have a comparison for what I'm saying.

My motor is at full potentional with current parts and makes 228bhp & 174lb/ft of torque. I have Type s intake, 62mm tb, ATR inlet manifold, factory ported head freshly rebuild, ATR cams, mugen exhaust, decat & evo 2 cat back all tuned with an hondata s300. This is on stock compression.

Lude-dude has almost exactly the same setup apart from more agressive cams and a bigger TB, he makes less power than me. Only 1 or 2bhp but that shows the TB doesn't make the gains your saying here and the more agressive cams dont help without the compression.

Benny boy has the exact same setup as me except he has higher compression ATR instead of the stock a5 compression. He make 244bhp and basically the same torque. He also have a much better high end torque curve as mine drops off after peak whereas his holds to the limiter.

All the engines were build by the same person. To me this says that TB isn't going to help in this sitation, pistons are the way forward. The 11:1 ATR pistons would jump my power 15-20bhp where as if I put bigger cams and TB in I could spend a lot of money and get nowhere.

Pumpingiron · Post by **Pumpingiron** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:12 pm

Sorry mate but for me bhp is bull-crap! when you go to a dyno they put it in the rollers and you measure it there then they calculate the losts and got bhp...so i only check for whp!! So if your able to get the whp values and on which dyno you did it i can extrapolate the values!

Then another thing, what is the cams your freind have?If you tell me is Brian Crower i will say it´s perfectly normal that they didn´t get much of a gain over the ATR cams! Also what is the AF values on mid and high rpm range of your set-up and your freind with cams so we can compare....

You have so much parameters that can interfere to make or take whp that when we compare set-ups and power we must compare with all the values we can find! Not saying that you or your friends are foolish to think that TB don´t contribute, only that i had different experience on dyno and out!!Meanwhile only a TB don´t do much, in a stock, non-tuned set-up... And as for higher compression pistons between 10.5:1 and a 11:1 you don´t see much off a improvement!!

In my opinion

A1ex · Post by **A1ex** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:26 pm

ah, my pistons are 10:1 but the heads been skimmed so approx 10.2:1.

With regards to the dyno, all cars were tuned at the same dyno station with the same software and all in the same car resulting in the same drive line etc only difference being from the wheels and tyres.

If you take my whp value then, say 15% losses I'm running 193whp. There is no way i'd gain 27whp from chaning my TB. Lude dude changed his TB and gaind 5bhp which is what 3whp?

I don't see how the AFR comes into play, if it was all done by the same guy who is an expert tuner with the proper kit, he will run it at what is safe for the motor. I know the AFR will account for the power but he will have tuned it as safe as it could go already.

I've already spoken to a h22 expert, adding a bigger tb to my setup along with port matching the inlet would do approximately nothing. And TBH, whatever Rich says about tuning H22's is right

FTR, heres my print out;

Post by **Lude-dude** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:30 pm

my cams are crower not brian crower

they are a little too aggressive for the setup, I could do with pistons

it had titanum retainers, skunk gears etc.. came up second hand so went for it

rich recommended the 68mm TB, I bought the wrong one the billet skunk TB

I had the intial dyno print out, but has changed since

and its got a problem at the moment with loss of power and black smoke

probably fuel related and nothing to do with the build, still cant drive it at mo

A1ex · Post by **A1ex** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:37 pm

fingers crossed for fuel issue mate!

Pumpingiron · Post by **Pumpingiron** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:06 pm

What stage you got Lude-dude? Yeah black smoke definitely is an synonymy of to much fuel...unless is black/blue!!

You can´t for sure tell is 15% loss, you see when i arrived in Portugal everybody goes on MAHA dyno´s and they are very conservative dynos, even more than a dynapack, so a normal K20(RBC, TB, K-tuned headers, K-rpo, 3") how usually makes a 195-210whp in the us is making in a maha 185whp... So no you would not gain 27whp with a TB that´s fore sure!!

What i saw is that kind of big numbers with the H series is throughout even a bigger set of injectors, because 290cc bottom up with your set of mods, and usually the duty cycle on the 320 of h22a2 are around 90% unless you put more pressure! That is that we used to put 3" exhaust on a h2b set-up, with a bigtube headers and a fuel mixture not on safe mode but in making power mode...

But hey i´m only here to saying with i used to see and do in Canada with my boy´s, is not necessarily the way to go for every body just pitching my opinion!

A1ex · Post by **A1ex** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:16 pm

It's my DD so I'd much rather the engine lasts

I have ATR injectors too, think they're bigger than the stock lude ones.

Pumpingiron · Post by **Pumpingiron** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:21 pm

No they are not 290cc for ATR and 5th gen lude, the 4th gen lude is 320/5cc!

For power meaning more fuel than usual, at WOT usually a normal engine loves 13.5, but better cams and everything usually the engine loves 13.0 even saw 12.7...

A1ex · Post by **A1ex** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:26 pm

Aren't 5th gen injectors saturated & 4th gen peak & hold?

As previous, no idea what the AFR is but I trust the tuner has it right. They tune a lot of race cars over hear. A mate of mine was running a 276bhp k20 DC5 which was tuned there.

Pumpingiron · Post by **Pumpingiron** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:35 pm

Yep sir!

http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-artic ... ors-30347/

5th they say 280 but it is in fact 290!

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2570285